Crime and Punishment: Part 6

• What do you make of Porfiry’s injunction to Rodya, “There is an idea in suffering”
• Suffering brings you closer to God—Porfiry as a more spiritual character
• The Russian element—something of a cultural basis—suffering
• Like there is a “thought process” in suffering—Nikolai’s religious background brings him to the false admission
• The “idea” in suffering—to pursue an action despite the sense of consequence
• Porfiry encouraging Rodya to persevere despite the suffering he’s enduring
• Rodya suffers because he thinks he alone is capable of determining his fate—his false perception of being a superman
• Rodya is extraordinary for confessing (Sonya as the most extraordinary character in the book—like Rodya’s conscience)—because of Sonya, Rodya confesses
• Rodya confesses for a selfish cause (peace for himself)—
• Being extraordinary is living by your conscience—Rodya is influenced by Sonya—earlier, gets the idea of the murders from the students in the tavern—
• Following the superman theory he becomes a monster
  Rodya is a paradox in many ways…
• What is the purpose (message) of the book? To challenge the idea of the superman—
• Porfiry and Razuhimin do not “over-step” (thus, couldn’t be superman characters)
• Svid represents the id as Rodya represents the ego and Sonya is the super-ego
• Is true redemption voluntary or can it be achieved through force?
• Will Rodya ever be redeemed?
• Rodya embarks on the road to redemption, but it’s not all a matter of his own making—Sonya and Porfiry put him on the path
• Rodya won’t ever deserve Sonya—
• We are seeing signs of rebirth…
• How do we define redemption in terms of C&P?
• Redemption--being fully atoned for what’s been wrongfully done
• Society plays a role in redemption—how what you’ve effected others
• You must be honest with yourself in order to be redeemed—Svid is unable to do this—accounts for his demise
• Is forgiveness redemption?
• Is suffering necessary for redemption?
• Sonya’s suffering is what life has done to her, not imposing her will upon others (as does Rodya)
• Sonya asks Rodya why he commits his sin…
• Sonya bears the burden of others, while Rodya burdens others

Part 3, Crime and Punishment

· What is the importance of Svid coming in at the very end? Cliffhanger?
· Who was the anonymous whisperer? The unknown merchant? P.228
· Awakening as motif—a turning point or epiphany seems to happen immediately after an awakening…
· Rodya awakens before Svid enters (not really asleep—the only person who can’t awaken is the one who is pretending to be asleep)
· Doors as motif—a barrier—a means of keeping something secret
· What about Rodya’s justification of crime?
For most significant advancements, there’s sacrifice…does Rodya really believe what he’s written?
If so, what good was Rodya hoping to bring?
· Rodya sees himself as the extraordinary person…he says at one point that he didn’t kill a human being but a principle
· Does Dostoevsky approve of the Superman idea? Depends on how the story ends…
· Rodya is struggling with the outcome of the murder
· Do you think that Rodya is a superman? Internal struggle is proof that he is not a superman…the fainting…
· He had petty reasons for the crime…not a superman principle…he rationalized that he was ridding the world of the old crone…what was his intention?
· Was the murder selfish or selfless? Originally, he did it for himself…
· Is the superman label created by what others think or what the person himself thinks of himself?
Which is more important? He doesn’t see himself as one, that’s what makes him feel so miserable…
p.256—trying to convince himself that he is right for killing Aloyna
From the murder, he is evolving more into a true superman in a moral sense…
· How do I know who these supermen are? He must accomplish something to prove it…
· Living by your own standards and morals as a defining factor of the superman and that your standards are superior to others..Leopold and Loeb case…the court recognized it as a mental illness
· Room as motif—often Rodya is alone and entrapped in rooms
· Part of the superman theory is that he would better the world by changing the world to better fit his standards
· What do you think there are either ordinary or extraordinary people? A bizarre theory…based on acts as evidence…overman vs. underman…
· The Hollowmen vs. the others
· Effecting a social change as proof of being an overman…morality as relative (subjective)…
· Should there be a punishment for Rodya’s actions? People who live by the superman theory are anamolies and subject to punishment—
· Rodya’s change in morality? Living much more outside of himself now…the struggle has shown some doubt…on p.247 the really great men must have great sadness…the fact that he feels the need to justify his actions is a search and discovery of morality…although not showing regret, he is searching for a moral justification
· His connection with Sonya indicates a change in his stride…p.257 why don’t they weep, why don’t they moan (Lizaveta, Sonya)…
· 246—if has a conscience he will suffer for his mistakes (Rodya’s conscience as the punishment)

Crime and Punishment: Part 2, chapters 5-7

Ø The significance of clothing?
Ø Marmelodov’s death
Ø Chance/Coincidence
Ø Is Rodya his own worst enemy?
Ø The discussion of Pyotr Petrovich and its significance
Ø Rodya’s conversation with Zamytov
Ø The attempted suicide
Discussion
Ø Sonya is holding the family together-she supports them and Marmelodov dies in her arms
Ø Marmelodov is a weak character-his weaknesses become his burdens and his family’s burden
o He meets a comically sad ending with the embrace of Sonya
o Is Marmelodov redeemed? If so, what does his redemption look like? Does redemption have an “aura”?
Ø Lizaveta has spite in her speech, but continually cares for Marmelodov (paradoxical behavior?)
Ø Peter’s “vanity overcomes his prudence”
o He makes empty philosophical statements
o He has a very conceited and arrogant air about him in both speech and dress
Ø Has Rodya married?
o He promised to betroth his landlady’s daughter
o How does this compare to Peter’s relationship with Raskolnikov’s sister?
Ø pp. 175
o Why was Rodya covered in blood both during the performance of the murder and during Rodya’s attempts to redeem his sins?
Ø What happens during Rodya’s meeting with Polenka?
o Is this a cleansing, or is this something else?
o Is it merely a temporary epiphany?
Ø Is there a correlation between Rodya and Dostkievsky?
o The rebirth of your soul after it has been killed only occurs with a bodily passing/rebirth?
Ø Does Raskolnikov feel guilt?
o Does he truly feel guilt?
o Why is he looking for redemption?
o Does he merely want to confess for the “thrill” of his actions?
o Is it a message for Rodya indicating that he has a significance or a “place” in the world when Polenka hugs him?
Ø Having a significance or a “space/place” in society?
o He has the opportunity to make a difference and affect the world around it
o Significance of “life”-explains his deviation between extreme depression and a feeling of uselessness to a recognition of the capability to effect the world around him
o “And I had already consented to live on a square of space.”
Ø The motif of rooms and space
o Raskolnikov’s murder of the “crone” perpetuates the transformation of his “fate” and “space” to something tangible
o He transitions from a “clouded mindset” to having a clear purpose
Ø The attempted suicide
o Why is Rodya so apathetic?
o References to Hamlet
o “Shall I tell them, or shall I not tell them?”
o The bridge is a parallel to this thought?
o There is no room for Rodya at the end of the chapter; he feels he must metaphorically “jump” by confessing
Ø What role does sleeping play in the significance of Rodya’s guilt?

Crime and Punishment: Part 1, Chapters 4-7

· Can killing be moral?
o No--Way he killed wasn’t immoral-blind with his wrath-overkill-wasn’t himself
o Does the way an act is committed determine morality?
§ Yes—so gory, premeditated—psychotic—“destiny:
§ Less bloody way—more moral killing?
· Selfish-trying to protect himself
o Did killing strictly out of hatred
o Knows that what he was doing was immoral—“voice would not obey him” in “a terrible haste” after killing—definitely immoral
o Doesn’t know what he’s doing it wrong—doesn’t consider himself a criminal
o He was proud of himself how he held his head during the murder—he could do it again
o Superman theory—creates his own guidelines for each situation
§ Over man—don’t have any emotions/compassion
§ Panicked when reads mom’s letter—very emotional or hard-hearted?
o Change in emotion when sees girl on bench
o Making readers think “what is good?” what are morals?
o Showing underlying struggle between heart and mind—carrying a doubt but going with what he thinks is right
§ Lear! External vs. internal struggle
o What’s causing him to change? Changes opinion after action
§ Through experiences—he does a lot of thinking; “I think”
§ “What made me think?” readers can see thought process of deep thinker—every different option is considered and its significance
§ What can the husband give that Rodya can’t? letter changed him
o Is there such thing as having good intentions to kill someone?
§ Psychotic—lack of thinking
§ No—doesn’t realize what he’s done until after he thinks about it—no real emotional drive—goes solely off of an impulse
§ Not an impulsive act—been thinking about murder for entire first part of book
§ Seems impulsive—doesn’t think about what he’ll feel afterward
§ Finding axe—impulsive
§ Impulsionsàsuccess
§ Can’t leave himself any time to think or everything will get delayed
§ Fantasize about act but can’t carry it out without impulses
§ Buried capacity for compassion—horrified with mare dream—rationalizing that he has every right to kill her—clashing thoughts/emotions
§ Impulsive act of kindness (girl and leaving money) are part of who he originally was—some factor (break with sanity) that we don’t know that’s contributing to him changing—initial character
§ Has thoughts that he’s above others because of intelligence—also has compassion for others
§ Everything he does—right thing to do in his mind—every impulse is good in his eyes
§ Doesn’t have time for pride to affect anything or his past/coldness—first acts are good/compassionate. Impulsive kind actions—who he truly is
§ Giving money=needing money=killing woman
§ Disagree—his actions initially and after thinking are consistent—desire to be needed, obsession almost. Helping girl=I have power in this circumstance and can help someone—she walks away=he loses interest/care. Not 2 different characters—one person with obsession to be needed
§ No recognition from giving $
§ But does he still have power?
§ Creates power? Doesn’t have overwhelming desire to be needed
§ Marmeledov was counting on him up the stairs=he felt needed/powerful
§ Not being needed=needs justification for his actions/feeling of superiority
o Why the axe?
§ Shows need for power?
§ Why not sleeping poison?
§ Axe shows lack of thinking—brutish
§ Can’t trust his skill with knife
§ Axe is simple—doesn’t need skill
§ Hard to get axe=why not rope?
§ Can’t trust a string
o Dream of gray mare=symbolic connection between dream and murder?
§ Foreshadowing—saw violent act that he witnessed—prepares reader for gruesome scene—more expected
§ Most confusing about dream=referencing twice a woman cracking nuts and smiling
§ Tom’s poem=people are oblivious to people’s sufferieng
§ After fallen angel—he doesn’t really care—it’s only 1 percent
§ Society is a bizarre place to live for an unstable person=reflects on childhood—grows up and gets message that his acts are okay
§ Location=motif=him living in st. Petersburg=triggers his mentality=contributed to rational
§ “animals and innocent beings”=lizaveta and mare (animal) liz doesn’t cover herself when axe comes down=she just takes it on her head. No protection= liz is great mare-aloyna uses liz as her “innocent animal”=murders the innocence that he’s initially doing this act for
§ Kills aloyna to help others and liz to help himself
§ Liz=2nd blow=he just wanted to get murder over with in 1 blow
§ Using axe to kill mare
§ “get an axe and finish her off”
§ Axe=needy for power. Made him feel like he had power like in the dream
§ Watching mare’s murder=feels powerless—runs to horse’s head—no one noticed him trying to stop them—now he wants power to change things
o We don’t know clearly why he murders: Where does his actual hatred for her come from?
§ In Petersburg, saw poverty etc. justification for why murder isn’t as bad as poverty—stop suffering of others
§ He wants to walk through haymarket—bothers him but he’s attracted to it—feels need to do something to help people in haymarket
§ His own suffering in his own family—when he heard guys talking in bar—suffering of many people in general
§ Is it his own suffering or other’s suffering?
· Fallen angel after reading letter and marriage—she’s sacrificing herself for rodya’s education—sonia sacrificing herself for her family—has 2 examples of innocent women—ultimate sacrifice—girl taken advantage of—he sees fallen angel as his sister and Sonia—wants to amend it
· Christ’s suffering—for others
o After reading letter: led to the murder? Not helping family, so he has to help others by killing her
§ Misdirected expression
§ We don’t know his rational yet
§ Seems to be a number of different reasons
§ Freudian psychology—before stream of conciseness
§ Repressed feelings= become stronger/ expression as depression and comes out in dreams in subconscious—dream with mare=powerlessness, sympathetic Rodya
o What happens when reason fails us?
§ Reason fails rodja= chance is relied upon
§ Retreat into complete opposite intention
§ Regress before having reason
§ Fight or flight—thinking more about one’s self—had reason for murder but then thought about only himself and killed liz
§ Reason fails=stop seeing options—a lot of open doors in book (imagery)—symbolize mobility of being able to choose own destiny=lack of reasoning by rodja=shuts doors
§ All liberty of action and free will were gone for R.
o Reason fails=resort to violence or apollonian mercy?
§ Negative and positive nature?

· Around circle:
o Repercussions of testing possibilities=accelerated moral decay=separation of mind and heart
o I don’t know if I like Rodja=seems extraordinarily human and relatable=mind so divided and over thinks things—intriguing character
o Curious that the climax of the story happens right away=what will come? Symbolizes that there is a second chapter to everything
o Foreshadowing affect had on readers=make it less of a shock? Less consequence to follow?
o When reason fails= actions or impulse or emotions

Crime and Punishment: Part 1, Chapters 1-3

Crime and Punishment Ch 1-3 Discussion
“Poverty, sir is no vice..but destitution is” –M. What is the difference between poverty and destitution?
· Connotation- destitution is accepting where you are, looking for income through others…poverty- current state of not having enough, but possibility or hope that situation will change
· Economics- salary rate…poverty is just a word to compare your situation to others, you have somewhere to go…destitution= end of the road
· In beggary you cannot retain your soul, reached rock bottom
· “you may be poor but still be inborn with nobility” – in destitution there is nobody and nothing
· Destitution is a choice, poverty is unfortunate
· Destitution is not a choice, it is the extreme of poverty…destitution is utter poverty. Although being poor is not a vice b/c money is not necessary for survival/happiness, there is no way to have a good life with nothing
· Poverty is a lack of money, destitution is a lack of everything (hope, effort, money…)
· Context of C&P – destitution is more of a choice rather than extreme poverty
· Destitution is embarrassing to society in relation to C&P
· No desire to improve one’s state…is that a choice or not?
· Katerina held her head high…high sense of nobility even though she was on the borderline of poverty and destitution

Can you be destitute and still be wealthy?
· Yes- looking at society as a whole…poverty and destitution are the same thing (emotional desperation= destitution) poverty is less emotional
· Mother Theresa – poverty in America is the worst poverty in the world…emotional and spiritual poverty although have a high level of living
· In an American sense – if you are poor, you are destitute. We don’t have evidence of the poorest people being the happiest people (Calvinist thinking) Mindset – God won’t help you unless you help yourself
· Can you be impoverished and still be happy? Not a physical difference, but an emotional difference. Destitute is about the emotional drive…feeling of hopelessness.
· “Necessary that at least every man have somewhere to go where he too is pitied” –M
· Relation b/t having a place to find dignity – gives us space to breathe and feel comfortable

What made R. become so antisocial and hate human interaction so much?
· Reflects on society they live in – tough to farmiliarize with others around you
· Does he not like society or the people?
· Society made him that way
· R. is very prideful (good-looking) his pride makes him feel better than others – people don’t like him
· Deteriorated neighborhood has made him feel ugly and bitter…encourages hatred
· He doesn’t hate people all the time (giving people money) quick changes in his mind
· He shows love for his family
· He doesn’t hate people, he doesn’t like meeting people
· Emotionally detached
· Obsessed to the point where he does not want to deal with people
· Obsessed with what?
· He knows something is wrong, but he doesn’t know what..something feels off
· Chaos inside outside of him reflects chaos inside of him
· R.’s work = thinking, he seems deep in thought all the time…thinks about what he does a lot
· Doesn’t want to meet people b/c of his awful economic state…wants people to see him for who he really is
· Felt uncomfortable around people he knew (cook, shut his door)

Is he in our out of his element in St. Petersburg?
· Growing up, relied on religious beliefs. He doesn’t want to meet people/doesn’t like to…suggests that he is out of his element
· Becomes emotional when he reads letter from his family
· He doesn’t think he belongs with the people he is around all the time, he doesn’t feel like he is where he should be even though he is living like them and dressing like them
· Leads to mental instability…torn between family beliefs and sin in St. Petersburg…doesn’t know how to react. Improve himself? Or go deeper w/in himself?
Visit to the pawnbroker:
· Pawnbroker = foil to R. she is alert and concerned, he is removed
· “the old woman” and “the young man” contrasting
· Shift of power…R. realizes that he is powerless. He only finds power w/in his mental capabilities not in his situations
· “wicked old widows who keep everything so clean” calling her evil. Why is he demonizing her? Why does it seem necessary?
· …that is the only place he can utilize his power – mentally
· Unleashing his anger on her
· R. is so impulsive in giving his money away, he is also impulsive w/ pawnbroker in asking about her sister…feels guilty. Very back and forth emotions
· Seems two-sided
· Can not commit to decisions, up & down the stairs = symbol of his changing mind
· Seems torn-between
· “to tear away from” (name)
· Crime: to step over (literal translation) … interesting in looking at first few pages, what is each person afraid of?


· Poverty and destitution is emotional and beggary
· Does emotional mean spiritual?
· Destitution comes from how you respect yourself
· How does characterization of pawnbroker justify R’s plan?

Summer Reading

By way of introduction, please share some brief thoughts about what you read this summer. Include not only the literary novel you read for class, but also any other reading that you have done both literary and "commercial", both print and electronic. Please post your writing under "comments" by class time on Friday, August 19.